Raw Journolist emails: Do Tea Party members ‘parallel’ Nazis?

Rick Perlstein
Aug 7, 2009, 11:01am

Mike–the point being, people shouting down pro-LBJ officials in the 1960s weren’t in any meaningful way part of the Democratic coalition (by 1972 it becomes a little more complicated), and certainly were not deployed in any conscious fashion in the electoral leaders by that coalition’s leaders. That’s the key analytical difference.

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Michael Kazin
Aug 7, 2009, 11:10am

Just read this quickly, but I think the whole premise is wrong, wrong, wrong. This is not Europe in the 1930s — which was Paxton’s reference point and that of nearly every theoretician of fascism. Is there a movement of any size or credibility which advocates doing away with the First Amendment, regular elections, or even has a whisper of a hope of founding a fascistic third party that would amount to anything? Is there anyone who’s advocating another aggressive war? Rick, you of all people, ought to recognize right-wing, anti-liberal backlash populism when it rears its gruesome head once again. Let’s not emulate idiots like Jonah Goldberg who substitute inappropriate labels for good analysis.

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Rick Perlstein
Aug 7, 2009, 11:41am

Michael, can you say this as a comment on the thread?

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Katha Pollitt
Aug 7, 2009, 12:20pm

Fascism was a historical phenomenon. That’s why I don’t like the way the word is used today. Fascists wanted a big all-powerful state that would both reach down into people’s lives at the most intimate level and support the( racially pure) masses economically through jobs, public works, and so on. That doesn’t have much relation to what american rightwingers want. They want a tiny defunded state that would use its diminished power and authority mostly for war, border patrol, prisons, repression of dirty effing hippies etc. but would leave ordinary citizens to sink or swim. Unlike the German or Italian fascists, today’s US rightwingers have nothing concrete to offer people. Just the pleasures of racism and selfishness and fear.

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Michael Kazin
Aug 7, 2009, 12:19pm

I thought I did that…

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Daniel Davies
Aug 7, 2009, 12:26pm

Roger Griffin and Robert Paxton don’t either of them identify state-corporate economics as an essential component of generic fascism. The Ku Klux Klan didn’t want to create an economically pervasive state, for example and nor did Augusto Pinochet.

dd

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James Surowiecki
Aug 7, 2009, 12:35pm

How does Robinson figure that the second stage, which she defines as:

“In the second stage, fascist movements take root, turn into real political parties, and seize their seat at the table of power.” has already happened? When exactly did the fascists seize their seat at the table of power in the U.S.?

Having said that, I’ve always thought it’s positively bizarre that Roger Griffin’s term for the nationalist renewal is PALINgenesis. Really, what are the odds of that?

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Rick Perlstein
Aug 7, 2009, 12:41pm

I mean on Sarah’s blog post.

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Chris Hayes
Aug 7, 2009, 12:43pm

I think people should put all of this in a bit of context. I know the line from the DNC and blogosphere (which has been very effective!) is these are “mobs” that are “shouting down” and intimidating folks, and that’s clear true up to a point. But I also have to say, I’ve covered zoning variance hearings on Chicago’s north side that devolved into shouting matches and nearly came to blows.

-c