Politics

UPDATE: Muslim leaders plan to move forward with Ground Zero community center

UPDATE from our Sam Goldsmith, who’s been following this issue and just got off the phone with Sharif El-Gamal, the developer of the project:

“That’s complete misinformation. That’s crazy,” El-Gamal said.

“That’s totally totally wrong. This is more misinformation in this web of misinformation.”

“We’ve never even talked about this as an idea. Everything is on track and moving forward at the same location.”

Full story: Muslim leaders to abandon plans for Ground Zero community center – Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

  • dougd

    Since the Imam is determined then, I think it only fair that we addopt the same tolerance for Islam that it has for Christianity and Judism. That’s only fair, equal treatment. It’s the example they set for us……

  • theprofessor

    Doesn’t anyone else find it appalling that this Iman Feisel’s wife is on the board of the 9/11 memorial? She’s also on the board of American Society for Muslim Advancement and is involved with CAIR and other radical muslim groups. When does conflict of interest come into play here?

    “Imam Feisal’s wife, Daisy Khan, serves on an advisory team for the National September 11 Memorial and Museum,”

  • truebearing

    This thread is about a phone conversation with the developer of the mosque where he denies any change will be considered. Your lame accusation that DC was guilty of “false reporting” is unsubstantiated and a distraction from having your stupid comment jammed back down your throat by des1.

    Is this the story you called “false reporting”?:

    “Rep. Pete King’s camp tells me he spoke with Gov. David Paterson this morning and that the governor said he is meeting later this week with the developer and leader of the ground zero-area mosque project to discuss the possibility of moving it to an alternate site.”

    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2010/08/17/king-governor-says-hes-meeting-with-mosque-leaders-this-week/#ixzz0wuETqNS1

    That isn’t a rumor, bozo, and the DC wasn’t the source. It was a reprint of a Politico story.

    You still haven’t dealt with the stupid comment you made about how much “class” the Muslims were showing by moving. If they had class because they were moving, and now they aren’t moving, then they are classless, as des pointed out.
    The “compelling reason to start over” is because they are pissing off the victims families, not to mention 70% of the nation. They contradict themselves when they say this project somehow furthering understanding between groups when they refuse to understand the feelings of an entire nation. Only a complete idiot could miss that, or someone who doesn’t care about the feelings of anyone but his cult. You fit that description yourself.

    • truebearing

      this was meant to be a reply to my buddy, Loud dog. Sorry about that.

    • loudog

      The original story posted was that they were moving. It turned into they’re not moving overnight. The American Muslim leaders building the center have far more class than you’ll ever muster.

      • des1

        So they have class if they move out of respect, but if they ignore the victims of 9/11 and others who can’t forget that day or it’s long-reaching consequences then they are even classier?

        Just so we know, is there anything short of them doing a documentary on Mohammed complete with him raping his 9 year-old wife that wouldn’t be classy in your eyes?

        • loudog

          How does it feel to be Newt’s lapdog? Don’t you ever get tired of being pulled around on a leash?

  • truebearing

    No one would really believe radical Muslims would give up on building a mosque at what they consider the site of a victory, would they? And about the Mosque that the Park Service is planning for the Flight 93 crash site, how did the Muslims manage to turn that into government sponsored religious symbolism?

    St. Nicholas Church was destroyed on 9/11, after having been there since 1922. Attempts to rebuild it have been blocked by the Port Authority for nine years. Where is Obama’s big, fat mouth on this issue? Why has it been blocked? Is it freedom of religion and “tolerance” from the left that is stopping the rebuilding?

    The rigid, dogmatic (no, not Obama) Muslims (well yes, Obama) will never relent on their site choice as a symbol of victory. It is required by their cult teachings. They have to do this as part of their mandatory jihad. They will not tolerate any opposition or alternative solution.

    Here are a few words on Islamic intent and “tolerance” from well respected Islamic scholars:

    “Born in 1905, Mawlana Sayid Abul Ala Mawdudi was an Islamic scholar from the Indian subcontinent. His sermons (khutbat) and writings are world-renowned. He is viewed throughout the Islamic world as one of Islam’s greatest scholars. Here is what he had to say about Islam and global domination:

    Islam is not a normal religion like the other religions in the world, and Muslim nations are not like normal nations. Muslim nations are very special because they have a command from Allah to rule the entire world and to be over every nation in the world. 8
    Mawdudi explains Islam’s goals and purpose:
    Islam is a revolutionary faith that comes to destroy any government made by man. Islam doesn’t look for a nation to be in a better condition than another nation. Islam doesn’t care about the land or who owns the land. The goal of Islam is to rule the entire world and submit all of mankind to the faith of Islam. Any nation or power that gets in the way of that goal, Islam will fight and destroy. In order to fulfill that goal, Islam can use every power available every way it can be used to bring worldwide revolution. This is Jihad. 9

    In his book, “Jurisprudence in Muhammad’s Biography” the renowned Egyptian scholar from Al-Azhar university, Dr. Muhammad Sa’id Ramadan al-Buti writes that offensive and not defensive war is the “noblest Holy War” within Islam:
    The Holy War (Islamic Jihad), as it is known in Islamic Jurisprudence, is basically an offensive war. This is the duty of Muslims in every age when the needed military power becomes available to them. This is the phase in which the meaning of Holy war has taken its final form. Thus the apostle of Allah said: ‘ I was commanded to fight the people until they believe in Allah and his messages… The concept of Holy War (Jihad) in Islam does not take into consideration whether defensive or an offensive war. Its goal is the exaltation of the Word of Allah and the construction of Islamic society and the establishment of Allah’s Kingdom on Earth regardless of the means. The means would be offensive warfare. In this case, it is the apex, the noblest Holy War.

    Aduallah al-Araby in his book The Islamization of America cites a very frightening letter from one Catholic Archbishop to the Pope. In this open letter to the Pope, the Archbishop of Izmir (Smyrna), Turkey, the Reverend Guiseppe Germano Barnardini, spoke of a recent gathering of Christians and Muslims for the purpose of interfaith dialogue. An excerpt from his letter recounts that during the meeting, an authoritative Muslim stood up and spoke very calmly and assuredly:

    “Thanks to your democratic laws, we will invade you, Thanks to our religious laws, we will dominate you.”

    http://propheticnews.net/content/view/7398/60/

    • loudog

      Those are alot of words that have nothing to do with Muslim Americans and converting a building into a cultural center two blocks from ground zero, which btw, hasn’t had any rebuilding on it, so obviously the church hasn’t been rebuilt either.
      After 9-11 the scary Imam Rauf was called on by the FBI to teach and by the Bush admin to go to the middle east on diplomatic missions. NYC, NYPD and the local community have already given the thumbs up for the center so your fearmongering losses effectiveness.

      • truebearing

        You arfed: “Those are alot of words that have nothing to do with Muslim Americans”

        Are you really that stupid, or just that desparate to win an argument? Are you now suggesting American Muslims have a revised Koran they base their beliefs on? Maybe you should provide some evidence of your moronic assertion. Oh, that’s right, you just blather mindlessly.

        So now Bush is your source of truth and reason? You hate Bush and blame him for every ill. Now because he made a mistake I’m supposed to change my opinion? Nice try Pooch.

        Bloomberg’s popularity has plunged since he supported the mosque. Know what that means, Poodleboy? It means the majority of New Yorkers, you know, the voters, are pissed off about it.

        You’re in the wrong pack, weiner dog. You’re a dachshund running with the greyhounds. Go back to Huffpo.

        • loudog

          Oh, I’ll do my best to keep up with the scholars who post here.

          “At a time of intense curiosity and scrutiny of Islam and Muslims in the US, Rauf found himself propelled into a world of television studios, think-tank lectures, international conferences, FBI briefings and meetings with American politicians. In the process, he has achieved prominence as a moderate Muslim leader, shaped by and comfortable with both the worlds of Islam and the US. A book deal followed and he published What’s Right with Islam, after which Christian Science Monitor described him as “a bridge builder between Islam and America”,

          http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/bf1110d8-a5b0-11df-a5b7-00144feabdc0.html

          “In November 2004, Feisal Abdul Rauf participated in a lengthy discussion on religion and government with, among others, U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia. In May 2006, former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright placed the imam among a host of luminaries who inspired her book, “The Mighty and the Almighty.”
          “Feisal Abdul Rauf was dispatched on speaking tours by the past State Department on multiple occasions to help promote tolerance and religious diversity in the Arab and Muslim world. In 2007, he went to Morocco, the UAE, Qatar and Egypt on such missions”
          http://mediamatters.org/research/201008170048

        • loudog

          “At a time of intense curiosity and scrutiny of Islam and Muslims in the US, Rauf found himself propelled into a world of television studios, think-tank lectures, international conferences, FBI briefings and meetings with American politicians. In the process, he has achieved prominence as a moderate Muslim leader, shaped by and comfortable with both the worlds of Islam and the US. A book deal followed and he published What’s Right with Islam, after which Christian Science Monitor described him as “a bridge builder between Islam and America”
          http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/bf1110d8-a5b0-11df-a5b7-00144feabdc0.html

          • truebearing

            So what? I don’t want a bridge between the U.S. and Islam, because it will lead to the same nightmare Europe is dealing with. I am intolerant of intolerance, dipdog.

            You seem to think Rauf is unassailable because of an article written by a Soros minion. Rauf want Shariah law in this country. He has blamed the U.S. for 9/11, and said Osama Bin Laden was made in the U.S., only 19 days after 9/11. He refuses to condemn Hamas as a terror group.

            Again you try the polemic-by-word-association method, if you can call that a method. I don’t care what the Christian Science Monitor said without reading the entire context, and even then I very well might not agree. Do you think I have to abandon my position because it is a Christian publication? Pretty lame, Loud dog.

            I noticed that the author of the article you cited is with George Soros’s Open Society Institute, an organization dedicated to one world government and destroying the U.S. as a sovereign nation. It is the flagship of the many Soros funded groups, all of which are part of the Progressive/Marxist coup currently trying to supplant our constitution, economy, and culture with Soros’s sick Internationalist Progressivism. Pretty careless, and stupid of you, Loud Dog.

    • AlexZ

      You know, this stuff isn’t any more true than it was the last three times you posted it.

      • des1

        So the Islamic scholar from Canada that O’Reilly had on his show (who said this was undeniably an attempt to send a message about Islam’s victory on 9/11) doesn’t know as much about Islam as you do?

        Perhaps you could regail us with your immense knowledge of Islam, the history of Shiva and Sunni Muslims, and Jihad.

        • des1

          Sorry, that should read Shia….freaking auto-correct….

          • AlexZ

            Media literacy. (It’s the ability to evaluate information from various media.) Get some. It’s on O’Reilly, it must be true doesn’t cut it.

            Anyone can put on a scholar hat and claim whatever. Doesn’t make it necessarily true. (Even if it has O’Reilly’s endorsement.)

            I accept that Islam is a religion in the same way that I accept Christianity and Judaism as a religion. I don’t have to “prove” their validity. I don’t believe any of them have a mission to wipe out nonbelievers, although extremist believers may act as if they do. I’m not going to say Baptist Churches shouldn’t be built in Florida, because some extremist follower killed a doctor. I’m not going to cherry pick quotes from the Bible and call it “proof” of anything, either.

            I’m not an Islamic scholar, des, but neither are you. (And truebearing, as verbose and as good at quoting nutcake websites as he is, is not either.)

            Anti-Islam sentiment is based on some combination of hate, fear, and ignorance. I’m tired of people who set themselves up to judge who is and who isn’t a “real” American and who want to turn the United States into the repressive societies they rail against.

      • truebearing

        Alex,

        You blathered: “this stuff isn’t any more true than it was the last three times you posted it.”

        Well, Scarecrow, it isn’t any less true either. It’s just true. Truth doesn’t admit of degrees.

        I understand your inability to apprehend these things, since you don’t deal in truth, but instead live by a steady diet of lies. truth is a tough one for a perpetual liar.

  • Major_Skidmark

    The Ma’man A//ah cemetery is located within the grounds of West Jerusalem’s Independence Park.

    The cemetery is of ancient vintage. It dates back to at least the 12th century. There are some archeologists who believe it may even date back to the time of the prophet Mohammed.

    Funny, the muslims protest the Israelis building the “Museum of Tolerance” on or near a muslim graveyard. Yet in NYC, the 911 site is totally fine?

    The `Museum of Tolerance` sounds a lot like “outreach”?

    You can’t have it both ways.

    http://www.tinyurl.com/2cdz3dt

  • des1

    Ok Louddog, what is your story today (if you’re not hiding under your bed)? You said they were classy for deciding not to build there, so does that make them classless because they never intended to move? Or do you just change your argument to make sure the people you prefer are never wrong?

    • truebearing

      Don’t vex Loud Dog, he’s eating his Kibble and Crow.

      • loudog

        aren’t you supposed to be explaining how the CRA of 1977 caused a housing bubble in 2005? still waiting.

        • truebearing

          What the hell are you babbling about? Why are you waiting for me to explain that, out of curiosity’s sake?

          • loudog

            I asked you to explain it several weeks ago and you ran away.

          • truebearing

            You have me confused with someone else. Imagine that, you, confused.

            If you have documentation, show it, if not, STFU.

            Actually, there is a connection between the two, but it wasn’t me that pointed it out. The problem with explaining things to you is that you are a rigid dogmatist who refuses to acknowledge facts if they don’t fit your warped world view. In short, you are suffering from some form of ideological sickness, and honesty was the first thing it killed. Common sense died shortly thereafter, only a hairs breadth ahead of logic. As your disease has progressed (ah, we’ll call the disease Progressivism!) your brain has petrified into a cinder block, dense and hard, with an occassional impulse to bark.

          • loudog

            WOOF!

          • AlexZ

            truebearing says: “The problem with explaining things to you is that you are a rigid dogmatist who refuses to acknowledge facts if they don’t fit your warped world view. In short, you are suffering from some form of ideological sickness”

            Look kids, here we have a classic case of projection. Classic textbook case of psychological projection by the paranoid personality.

          • des1

            Coming from you I consider that charge laughable.

          • truebearing

            Little Alex,

            You tried the “projecting” schtick before, to no acclaim, or success. It’s really a dumb line of attack for a leftist, especially a dumb leftist who doesn’t know squat about psychology. Everyone who has any knowledge whatsoever of the left, and their evil tactics, knows that the left is constantly projecting their own deviousness, paranoia, underhandedness, dishonesty, ruthlessness, and general evil on anyone they want to destroy. You are cut out of the same rotten cloth, just dumber than the average Commie (and that ain’t too bright).

          • AlexZ

            Oh, you have ground me to dust, haven’t you? I am humbled by your verbosity.

        • theprofessor

          How about first you answer the dozens of questions that have been posed to you over the last several months?

          • loudog

            That’s right, you’re the one who ran away from the CRA question. You’re easily confused for your twin, tb

          • theprofessor

            I am? News to me. What the hell is “CRA”? I don’t even know what you’re talking about — but that’s not surprising since you’re just pulling it outta your as$. Got any proof of this alleged conversation?

            If you want to know what a liberal is up to, just look at what he’s accusing somebody else of doing. Case in point —–> you ducked and dodged my point about answering the many, many questions asked of you in the last several months. So, who exactly is “running away” from answering questions?

          • theprofessor

            I THIS the conversation you’re referring to?
            http://dailycaller.com/2010/07/11/palin-says-obama-agenda-is-backasswards-defends-angle-from-president/

            I found it via simple google search. I can see why you didn’t want to post it though, since you had your a$$ handed to you several times in that thread. No wonder you wanted it lost.

            Now, I expect an apology.

          • des1

            What? Loudog got his ass handed to him? It must be a day of the week that ends in “y.” {sigh}

          • loudog

            Dizzy1, you’ve only been successful 2 out of 7 debates. Not a record to brag about.

          • loudog

            Are you sure that you, TB and Dizzy1 aren’t all the same serial poster?

          • theprofessor

            “loudog

            Are you sure that you, TB and Dizzy1 aren’t all the same serial poster?”

            Yea, we’re sure, you idiot. Wow, you’re really desperate for a smoke screen to hide your idiocy now. Really, really desperate.

          • loudog

            Not desperate, amused by the 3 stooges.

    • loudog

      Moving would’ve shown more class than has been shown to them. Staying means that they’ve already purchased the building, spent years going through the approval process and have no compelling reason to start over…and that the DC reports rumors instead of facts.

      • truebearing

        Quoting the developer is a “rumor”?

        So then, conversely, twisting, editing, and misquoting would be the job of a qualified journolist, eh, Loud Dog?

        You have everything inverted. I’ll bet your toilet is on the ceiling.

        • loudog

          moving was the rumor that turned out to be false reporting. I’m going as slow as I can for you.

          • truebearing

            This thread is about a phone conversation with the developer of the mosque where he denies any change will be considered. Your lame accusation that DC was guilty of “false reporting” is unsubstantiated and a distraction from having your stupid comment jammed back down your throat by des1.

            Is this the story you called “false reporting”?:

            “Rep. Pete King’s camp tells me he spoke with Gov. David Paterson this morning and that the governor said he is meeting later this week with the developer and leader of the ground zero-area mosque project to discuss the possibility of moving it to an alternate site.”

            Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2010/08/17/king-governor-says-hes-meeting-with-mosque-leaders-this-week/#ixzz0wuETqNS1

            That isn’t a rumor, bozo, and the DC wasn’t the source. It was a reprint of a Politico story.

            You still haven’t dealt with the stupid comment you made about how much “class” the Muslims were showing by moving. If they had class because they were moving, and now they aren’t moving, then they are classless, as des pointed out.
            The “compelling reason to start over” is because they are pissing off the victims families, not to mention 70% of the nation. They contradict themselves when they say this project somehow furthering understanding between groups when they refuse to understand the feelings of an entire nation. Only a complete idiot could miss that, or someone who doesn’t care about the feelings of anyone but his cult. You fit that description yourself.

  • oldguy5

    Where are the unions of New York – if they refuse to do any work in building this mosque and picket anytime someone does work this project would be dead. Oh, I forgot unions suck.

  • superinfidel

    No mosque should ever be built anywhere in New York City where any smoke or debris touched on that day. Those are also remains of the murder victims and don’t deserve such treatment.