Fox News contributors Leo Terrell and Geraldo Rivera got into a squabble while discussing police reform Tuesday.
Terrell and Rivera spoke during an hour-long police special “The Faulkner Focus: Police in America” about whether systemic racism is an issue in today’s law enforcement. Terrell, a civil rights attorney, vehemently denied that the system is racist, eventually prompting a fight with Rivera, who pointed to statistics backing up his viewpoint that something needs to change.
“I make my comments based on 30 years of being a civil rights attorney and suing law enforcement,” Terrell began. “I want to put this to bed right now. There is no systemic racism within law enforcement in this country. Especially in Democratic cities where people of color are running the cities.”
Terrell challenged Rivera to give him “the name of the town, the name of the police department and the head of the police department” allegedly “implementing a pattern and practice of racial discrimination against people of color.” Rivera responded by pointing out that being a police officer “is a really tough job” before saying that there are an average of “1,000 citizens killed by cops every year.”
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“A black person is more than twice as likely as a white person to be killed by a cop,” Rivera continued. “Some of that happens because black people live in more crime–laden areas, more dangerous areas where cops are more on edge, I get that. But I spoke with two black moms, both professional women, yesterday. They told me — they tell me, impassioned terms, how fearful they are for their law abiding teenage sons when they drive around at night. That terror felt by black parents is real. Now how do you solve that?”
Rivera’s answer prompted Terrell to become frustrated and he pointed out that his co-contributor had skirted around his question. Terrell began yelling that Rivera is “lying about systemic racism” just as others “on the left” allegedly are as Rivera tried to interrupt. (RELATED: Cities With BLM Protests Had Fewer Police Shootings, Dramatically More Deaths)
“Don’t do that, Geraldo,” Terrell exclaimed before asking his question about naming a town and police department again. “Don’t do that.”
Rivera began naming cities as Faulkner attempted to get control of the segment. Faulkner contested Rivera’s argument, noting that she had lived in some of the same cities he named.
“Are you asking me how to make it better?” Rivera said as Terrell interrupted repeatedly. “Let’s be constructive and work together. Here is what I want. I would like us to abolish most no–knock warrants. I think they are really very dangerous. I think we should abolish most chokeholds. I think we should have a major campaign to recruit black and Latino youngsters to be police officers.”
“We should get a police department that reasonably reflects the community it serves. These are not unreasonable suggestions. This is the way to when make it better rather than yelling at each other,” he continued as Terrell threw his hands up in exasperation.
Harris began getting into the subject, too, wondering if Rivera has been “listening to the police officers and the leadership that have been on this show and others.” She pointed out that many are “having a hard time recruiting anybody” and Rivera said he does “hear what they are saying.”
“Here it is,” Terrell declared after Faulkner gave him the last word. “Systemic racism within law enforcement does not exist in this great country of America. You hear me Washington, you hear me the White House? It does not exist.”